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Who do you believe is going to win the religious liberty case this Tuesday?
in Religion
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I would also like to point out to Dr. Cereal that he did not deny them on account of homosexuality, he denied them because they asked him to make a wedding cake that went against the baker's religious beliefs, so he was denying them a service, and he offered them anything else in his shop.
Finally, for Skeptical One, I do think being homosexual is a choice. People are not born gay because there is no "gay" hormone. Homosexuals make a choice to love other men, and can act on that love to marry the man. Although there is love in the relationship, it is imperfect love. One last thing, I condone homosexual desires, that is not wrong, but the choosing to act on the desires is what I consider wrong.
I will post a longer argument, but I have school so see you soon.
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There is absolutely no rationale to choose to be gay and yet people end up being it. So whether or not it's from birth or involuntarily developed throughout childhood and adolescence, it is definitely not a choice.
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This is the crux of the debate I believe. If homosexuality were a choice, then instead of race we might use something like hairstyle as an analogy. Would it be ok to deny service to an individual because they had purple hair? Well, sure, it would still be kind of a move, but at least the denial isn't because of an unchangeable aspect of the individual's person. Hairstyles isn't a protected class nor should it be.
However, the fact of the matter is homosexuality is not a choice. We don't know exactly what causes it but there appears to be an epigenetic component to it. Environment (including the womb) can trigger the expression of certain genes and resulting in homosexuality. This is beyond the control of the individual.
This leads us back to denying service because of race or homosexuality is either equally justified or equally discriminatory. Neither race or homosexuality are something that can be rationally and/or honestly chosen, so the latter is true.
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-genetic-homosexuality-nature-nurture-20151007-story.html
http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/13/new-insight-into-the-epigenetic-roots-of-homosexuality/
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I think "bigot" should be reserved for malicious, fearful individuals. William is merely ignorant - not hateful or homophobic.
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Criticism isn't synonymous with fearful hatred.
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bigot
NOUN
A person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
He is both homophobic and intolerant to those who wish to act on their urges in a way that harms no one because unlike paedophilia and bestiality everyone involved can be said to consent.
So... What's your point? Where did I say hateful? He is homophobic and bigoted.
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Them being homosexuals -> The marriage to be a homosexual marriage -> The baker to refuse to bake them a wedding cake.
Any direct or indirect refusal to sell a specific product that's open to the rest of the public to a protected class is a violation of CADA.
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You are comparing the rights of KKK to the rights of homosexuals... LOL
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Anyway, I agree entirely with allowing full freedom of speech so you're barking up the wrong tree with me. I would support also pissing on KKK images in public and setting fire to their posters so I'm kind of an all-freedom person.
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Do you remember making the decision about whether you are going to be attracted to men or women? Be honest. You didn't.
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C.R.S. 24-34-601 (2)(a), "It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual’s patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry."
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Epigentics is not a modification of DNA, but a change in how certain parts of it are expressed. This expression (on or off) is determined by environment. Homosexuality is linked to the prenatal environment (among other things). This not my opinion:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296090/
To claim 'homosexuality is a choice' is a symptom of ignorance. I've provided information that can cure this ailment.
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William has expressed an opinion contrary to yours and mine, but he has not been intolerant. In fact, he has stated he condones aspects of homosexuality.
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He can say he "condones" the urge to f*** someone of one's own gender and then say he "abhors" acting on that urge... LOL... The reason it's funny is that he probably is going to do the paedophilia and bestiality comparison but I already covered that in a rebuttal posted earlier in this very debate.
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Apparently, you've seen something I haven't. At any rate, I think you diminish your ability to persuade your interlocutor by applying such emotionally charged labels. Of course, if persuasion is not your goal then...flame away! ;-)
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